Are 19er submitters Quranists?


A discussion about the term Quranists and how the term is used – thread on QRAC

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19ers use of 10/20 and 25/5-6


We had more of 19er postings on Quranology, unfortunately.  This time, about the so-called ‘7 pairs’ which they allude to being the muqataat (the mystical letters). Why on earth would God call them 7 pairs is of course, never explained. Why noy 14 sets? Anyhow….

An interesting new development (at least to me) is the use of 10/20 and 25/5-6. Here’s what they say about it:

The Quran states in 10:20 and 25:4-6 that its miracle, i.e., proof of divine authorship, was destined to remain secret for a specific predetermined interim.

This is of course, patent nonsense. The Quran says nothing of the sort. My answer is as follows:

Your interpretation of 10/20 and 25/5-6 is highly suspect.

10/20: And they say, “Why is a sign not sent down to him from his Lord?” So say, “The unseen is only for Allah [to administer], so wait; indeed, I am with you among those who wait.”

This aya is for the Prophet and the Prophet was told to say ‘wait, i am waiting with you’. It has nothing to do with some secret miracle.

25/6: Say, , “It has been revealed by He who knows secrets within the heavens and the earth. Indeed, He is ever Forgiving and Merciful.”

It says ALLAH knows the secrets. It doesnt say Quran contains secrets.

You guys need to stop manipulating the text to support your code

Ifti asks the 19ers some tough questions…


With ’19 fever’ going on in Quranology Discussions, Ifti came up with some hard to answer questions:

 Have a question to all 19ers whoever can answer, i asked for it a lot of times but yet not answered,
1. Why check for 19 in only Quran?
2. Why cannot we add 19 complied verses in the Quran? when removal is possible i guess addition too.
3. Before 1000 years ( a rough number) wasnt there any other person who invented 19 code? If this is …the only way to verify the Quran God let others wander?
4. If 19 is the only method to check the Quran and being so effective why God does not mention in the Quran that there is this 19 thing to check?
5. What is the possibility of not having any verse added in the past by any intelligent person who was aware of 19 before RK but was not a believer?
6. RK being an amazing person to have found the code 19 the only method in how Quran was preserved why his name is not in the Quran? like Muhammad, Abraham etc.
( If RK is the first person to discover 19 then its a new revelation not the same message other messengers are delivering).
Note: please post your answers by mentioning the Question no.
Thank you

Submitter Wars IV : A New Miracle


A long time ago, in a country far far away…..(cue John William’s famous Star Wars score)

Rashad Khalifa founded the 19 miracle…
He rejected 2 verses from the Quran…
He declared himself the Messenger of the Covenant

back to the present day…saw a post on islamic-research.org on fb today. Apparently the Submitters prove the 5 times a day ritual and the 17 units by some code or other. I thought, now’s a good time to test something. And off I went:

The 5 times a day prayer is confirmed by the Quran. Why, because it has 17 units and 17 is 19-minus 2 and the 2 are the false verses. It’s another miracle!!!!

My objective was simple: I wanted to see how a Submitter would react to this miracle. After all, I didn’t make anything up. Furthermore, these guys are still adding to the total ‘miracles’ today. RK’s findings weren’t the end of it..

A Submitter replied:

Hahaha. @Farouk, bro is it so 🙂
Am not saying u r wrong neither right.
Its not my job to falsify any verse neither any human except the one who revealed it to us.
And HE does it through HIS messengers
Pls check www.masjidtucson.org for the details of the same.

What I’d like to know is, what makes my miracle any different? I picked and chose numbers randomly and arranged them to make a result. How is my move any different from RK’s? For that matter, any Submitter who keep discovering new patterns? Furthermore, isn’t the PROOF of messengership some arbitrary result (for the Submitters)? If so,  I just provided proof. How is my proof any different?

That is the falsification test 😉

 

Nice people with good intentions


A recent comment I saw about Quranists

I have had a few good conversations with Quranists, they are nice people with good intentions, just lack the proper foundation and understanding. I guess who needs the words of The Prophet (saw) when your good at math and can just make up ideas based on equations.

Again, sadly, the misconception is that Quranists are numerologists / Submitters / Rashadites / Khalifites / 19ers etc

see related post: Quranists are not Rashadites

More info about Quranists

This is one of the great miracles ….REALLY ?!


Along with the ‘Gay Wars’ over the long weekend, the ’19 wars’ continued also. For those who don’t know, the 19 theory propounds the belief the Quran contains some kind of divine pattern based on the number 19. You can read about here.  I was quite intrigued by this code back in the day. After all, www.submission.org was the first ‘quran only’ website I found. It’s Quran-only however only its declaration. In truth, the hadith of Rashad Khalifa (the founder of the code and the messenger of the covenant) and the code itself totally overshadow any kind of Quranic research they have. 19ers tend to be (and I emphasise that its TENDENCY, not a necessity) very disdainful of the kind of research which challenges rituals in Islam. This is a good thing for the 19 chiefs because once Rashad’s translation is analysed, down comes the house of cards.

Take 74/35 for example:

74:35 This is one of the great miracles (Rashad’s translation)

Miracle?! Where is the word miracle there? Even the word ‘aya’ which actually means signs (although Rashad translated it as ‘miracles’ when it suited him) isn’t there! The word is ‘al-kubra’ which means ‘the great’. Does the Quran only use greatness positively? Have a look:

61/3: Great (Kubra) is hatred in the sight of Allah that you say what you do not do.
The same word is used to connote negativity in 61/3! This is far from being a miracle, folks!

2/143 : And indeed, it is great (lakabirah)  except for those whom Allah has guided. 

Once again, its used negatively. Kubra is not ‘miracle’ At all, In fact, al-kabair in the Quran itself are the big sins! Have a look at 4/31, 42/37 and 53/32.

Also, the ‘it’ in 74/35 contextually refers to hell-fire (see 74/30) but RK manipulated that as well. It’s a real pity that RK isn’t around today or the new generation of Quranists would forward to him all these objections…..

One Common Goal


InshaaAllah we can all be increased in knowledge. I personally think that everyone has a unique brain, understanding, viewpoint. If someone says they believe in the Quran, Allah, the Prophets the angels and the last day… I don’t see a huge problem. Maybe some might believe in a special significance of a certain verse about numbers. From what I understand, for some people, the numbers increase them in faith in Allah. I don’t see a problem with that either if that is their sincere belief. Some might let the numbers become the focus instead of Allah’s Words. Letting that happen, to my mind, would be a bit like buying a TomTom but leaving it in its packaging and telling everyone how wonderful the picture on the box is. I’m all for ripping the box open and getting the TomTom installed. Some people like to carefully take it out and save the packaging. Different people, different ways, different methods, one common goal. Allah is the best Judge.