Ifti asks the 19ers some tough questions…

With ’19 fever’ going on in Quranology Discussions, Ifti came up with some hard to answer questions:

 Have a question to all 19ers whoever can answer, i asked for it a lot of times but yet not answered,
1. Why check for 19 in only Quran?
2. Why cannot we add 19 complied verses in the Quran? when removal is possible i guess addition too.
3. Before 1000 years ( a rough number) wasnt there any other person who invented 19 code? If this is …the only way to verify the Quran God let others wander?
4. If 19 is the only method to check the Quran and being so effective why God does not mention in the Quran that there is this 19 thing to check?
5. What is the possibility of not having any verse added in the past by any intelligent person who was aware of 19 before RK but was not a believer?
6. RK being an amazing person to have found the code 19 the only method in how Quran was preserved why his name is not in the Quran? like Muhammad, Abraham etc.
( If RK is the first person to discover 19 then its a new revelation not the same message other messengers are delivering).
Note: please post your answers by mentioning the Question no.
Thank you

19 Fundamentalism

Sadly, the 19 rhetoric continues over at Quranology Discussions. Now, Edip has made a rather fundamentalist remark – either you accept 19 or your either an ingrate or a hypocrite – type talk. Edip said:

The prophetic fullfillment of the number 19 has proved this point millions of times. On this very forum, you will see many who give lipservice to the Quran, yet demonstrate ignorance and arrogance against one of its greatest signs. The Quran is a great miracle that only those few who value truth and The Truth above everything can witness.

In other words, those who reject the 19 code are simply giving ‘lip service’ to the Quran. This would include Mr Parwez and Mr Shiekh whose works on the Quran have helped many see the light. This is a fundamentalist attitude which is characteristic of the many people whom Edip himself opposes.

Edip Yuksel’s Challenge

It is quite a norm in the quranist world that debates take place and our debates dig deep. We questions things which are so fundamental that it’s scary for some. However, I was a little surprised to see this comment from my friend, Edip Yuksel in Quranology Discussions:

I am going to challenge brother Farouk A. Peru too, since he is too aspiring to become a leading opponent of 19. His distortion and misinformation needs to be exposed through a face-to-face Socratic grilling session. I do not know whether he has a magician friend to ask help from.

I don’t quite know when I am ‘aspiring to be a leading opponent of 19′ although I am a point where I don’t believe ’tis3ah ashara’ refers to a number at all. Whatever the case is, it’s a pity my friend Edip had to resort to such strong terms. Lets hope the debate itself can be friendly.

This is one of the great miracles ….REALLY ?!

Along with the ‘Gay Wars’ over the long weekend, the ’19 wars’ continued also. For those who don’t know, the 19 theory propounds the belief the Quran contains some kind of divine pattern based on the number 19. You can read about here.  I was quite intrigued by this code back in the day. After all, www.submission.org was the first ‘quran only’ website I found. It’s Quran-only however only its declaration. In truth, the hadith of Rashad Khalifa (the founder of the code and the messenger of the covenant) and the code itself totally overshadow any kind of Quranic research they have. 19ers tend to be (and I emphasise that its TENDENCY, not a necessity) very disdainful of the kind of research which challenges rituals in Islam. This is a good thing for the 19 chiefs because once Rashad’s translation is analysed, down comes the house of cards.

Take 74/35 for example:

74:35 This is one of the great miracles (Rashad’s translation)

Miracle?! Where is the word miracle there? Even the word ‘aya’ which actually means signs (although Rashad translated it as ‘miracles’ when it suited him) isn’t there! The word is ‘al-kubra’ which means ‘the great’. Does the Quran only use greatness positively? Have a look:

61/3: Great (Kubra) is hatred in the sight of Allah that you say what you do not do.
The same word is used to connote negativity in 61/3! This is far from being a miracle, folks!

2/143 : And indeed, it is great (lakabirah)  except for those whom Allah has guided. 

Once again, its used negatively. Kubra is not ‘miracle’ At all, In fact, al-kabair in the Quran itself are the big sins! Have a look at 4/31, 42/37 and 53/32.

Also, the ‘it’ in 74/35 contextually refers to hell-fire (see 74/30) but RK manipulated that as well. It’s a real pity that RK isn’t around today or the new generation of Quranists would forward to him all these objections…..