When was islam completed?


Good discssion in Quranology Discussions today. We discussed about when how islam was completed with Muhammad because of 5/3 which says:

This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion

I don’t buy this at all. This is probably because my own approach to Q is that it’s an eternalised event. 5/3 happens or can happen now.  Ever noticed only half of 5/3 gets quoted (the middle half)? That’s proof of what I’m saying.

Read 5/2-3 as an event happening now. There will be a change in your perception, I think.

Quranists and Submitters – The Difference


Interesting question in Yahoo Answers:

What’s the difference between Submitters and Quranists? Don’t worry I’m not out to bash anyone. In fact my whole family are Quranists.I know about 19 (but not much), but who is this Rashid person who claims to be a messenger? And if he is a messenger, then what is his message?

Please keep an open mind people 🙂

Our very own RevolutionPsyche gave a very comprehensive reply below:
Your entire family are Quranists? I’m jealous!Alright, let’s see. I’m on facebook and on many Quran Alone and Submitter groups, so I can show you both types of differences, the on and off record: Technical difference:

Quranists was a term used by the Egyptians and Egyptian Gov’t who were against Ahl Al Quran, a group of Quran Aloners who mainly followed Ahmad Subhi Mansour, who denied hadith and got into jail for this. If you speak Arabic and/or don’t mind weird English, check out their site: http://ahl-alquran.com/arabic/main.php. It got great Quranist articles. 🙂

This is where the term originated in Arabic countries, usually pronounced quraniyoon/quranyeen or ahl al quran.

Of course, this does not mean it’s theirs exclusively, and their original name is Ahl Al Quran. A Quranist is anyone who considers the Quran to be the only source of law. Some Quranists may be submitters (although I PERSONALLY do not consider them to be Quranists), and some others may believe in Sunnah but not hadith (which I do not consider Quranists either, for personal reasons).

There are many other outside sources beside hadith that people should utterly deny and leave behind, and so I don’t think the term “Quranist” can be canned up as a “Denier of Hadith”.

The thing is that Submitters believe in “miracle 19” as a part of the Quran, which is their honest opinion and they are entitled to it, and thus could be Quranists. Rashad Khalifa was believed to be another Messenger from God. You can find more about him and his ideology on http://submission.org/. This site doesn’t contain any criticism to the code19 theory. 🙂

Many Quranists even deny the term and consider it a way of division and prefer “Muslim”.

More links for you: my friend launched a Quranist website and a Quranist blog and blog directory (where you can add yours too): http://www.quranists.net/, quranistvoices.wordpress.com/.

The first one contains many great articles on the ideology, study approach and movement of Quranism.

The latter is probably your place for “daily” Quranic news and musings a number of writers (including myself) share online for everyone to benefit.

Differences I noticed:

Okay, not the off-the-record stuff. I’m not friends with many believers in code 19 at will. Many of them have abused me in the name of their code as I am not convinced with it although many others are nice. They prefer to be called “Submitters” as a part of Rashad’s “authorized English translation of the Quran”. I also noticed that Rashad Khalifa provided many many quick-business answers for them regarding the Quran and Quranic verses. His English translation kind of “seals the deal” on Quranic interpretation, and that is why I see they are in no need to be “Quranists”. Most Quranists I know spend many hours daily analyzing and studying the Quran, while I see them posting 19-related articles all over a chosen group. It’s spammy, and then they tell me I am a bad person for getting annoyed to see “God’s word” posted everywhere when it’s actually “Rashad Khalifa’s thoughts on God’s word”.

As far as I know, there are more foreign Submitters than Arabic ones (I’m Arabic and I noticed many were drawn more toward Shahrour’s and Ahmad Subhi Mansour’s views on hadith, thus didn’t get to see much of Rashad). It’s actually quite rare to find an Arabic Submitter although I know quite many.

Long ago, we had a group on facebook called “Hadith of the Day!” which was mainly 19-orientated. Most admins were advertising Rashad Khalifa’s ideas, which drew many people into discovering new ways to serve God without the need of Hadith. Maybe Rashad should get credit for spreading the message of free-thinking… to some degree.

And his message is mainly explained on submission.org although I highly recommend you don’t rely on it, since the code he brought to surface (code 19) cannot function properly unless two verses of the Quran are removed (which is a big no-no to me and many others), and I never fail to find “errors” in his work.

Finally:

To me, a Quranist is a free thinker (since imho, the Quran encourages free thinking) who studies the Quran and honestly attempts to apply it.

If you have a facebook, feel free to swing by our group: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/home.php?sk=group_179495912090888&ap=1

A collection of Quranist Voices


The recent Yahoo question caused quite a stir, and we got some good responses trying to clear up some common misconceptions. I thought it would be worth backing up the answers here in case the Yahoo thread goes walkabout.

Original Question:

Muslims how misguided are the “Quranist” cult?

The “Quran Alone” people follow Rashad Khalifa, a guy who called himself a prophet of God in the 80’s, who advocated hadith rejection. This cult has NUMEROUS branches and is gaining popularity among uneducated Muslims in the poor parts of the world (as well as those liberal, secular Muslims) and are the cause of alot of confusion among ordinary Muslims (like they say hijab isn’t mandatory). Whenever you try to explain to them how they’ve been decieved by Satan into following a false man, they throw fits and… get this… they say the majority of Muslims are hell bound because we follow hadith!!! LOL
  • 1 day ago
  • – 3 days left to answer

Additional Details

It should be noted the Quran commands us Muslims to honor, respect and FOLLOW Muhammed pbuh. That means follow Hadith. The Quranists don’t even write PBUH. They barely even mention the Prophet that was sent to guide mankind 1430 years ago. So they can’t even follow the Quran properly.

1 day ago

@Arqam
No the Quranists don’t belong to any denomination. This was a cult created in the 80’s and has grown. Submission.org was the first site and now there’s several more.
Though its estimated the amount of followers is no more than 1000.

1 day ago

there is no hadith that speaks of pornography or racism. Remember theres reliable and unreliable hadith
The word messanger and prophet are the SAME thing. Rashad Khalifa put his OWN NAME in the Quran.
Quranists are well known for their mis-interpretations. When the Quran spoke about the majority being wrong, it spoke of NON-MUSLIMS. Man you guys are just as bad as the ones who purposely misquote Islam for personal gain.
I’d like the cult members to analyze themselves. You follow a movement that began in the 80’s. Ever since Islam started we’ve been following hadith because thats what the Quran commands us to do. Early scholars and companions of the Prophet pbuh analyzed all of Muhammed’s pbuh words and actions and recorded them. Most of the hadith come from Aisha, she’s the first credited scholar in Islam.
Follow your own desires Quranists, you’ll HEAVILY regret this on judgment day.And BTW, no the Quranist cult do not get ANY support from educated Muslims. Funny, there’s no Quran Al

Some quranist responses

Response:
“Muslims how misguided are the “Quranist” cult?”1. Less misguided than the person who phrased this question as a deliberate insult.

2. Only a small fraction of the Return to the Qur’an movement follows the RK number-19 nonsense; this Islamic Awakening is crossing all sects and all continents. Alhamdulillah!

3. I do not expect this answer to be accept by those who take other fallible human texts as partners to the Book of Allah.

May Allah guide us all.

Response:
Dear Asker,It appears you have incorrectly labeled this cult as “Quranist” when in fact they are called “Submitters”, a name that Rashad Khalifa claimed to be the English translation of “Muslims”. They do not actually follow the Quran, they follow a book written by Rashad Khalifa called “Quran, The Final Testament: Authorized English Version” which contains an erroneous interpretation of the Quran as well as footnotes and appendices detailing extra-quranic teachings (read: teachings not found in the Quran)..

Quranists are not followers of Rashad Khalifa. Quranists study the original Quran, in Arabic, and follow the principle that the Quran is fully-detailed (muffasil) and self-explanatory. Quranists are able to analyze verses of the Quran by using Quran concordances such as http://www.corpus.quran.com and http://www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm and examine all occurrences of the root word throughout the entire Quran to better understand the concept. This method has led to a greater understanding and enlightenment for Quranists.

Additionally, Quranists recognize the plurality of paths to God and as a result they are tolerant of other approaches to peaceful existence. This very important aspect is often ignored by some so-called “Muslims” even though the Quran declares that there is no compulsion in religion and encourages making peace with neighbors.

Peace and love to you all. If you would like to read more about Quranism, please visit http://www.quranists.net.

Response:
Actually, the followers of Rashad Khalifa are specifically called Submitters and some may even use “God Alone”. I wish you would learn the difference.Quranists/Quran-Alone are people who view the Quran as the only source of law and guidance in Islam. Although I don’t consider Submitters or the followers of Rashad Khalifa to be Quran alone, I think some of them would be. To me, they still follow outside sources of the Quran.

They can pray 5 times as they like, but if you look close enough at the prayer articles on submission.org, you will discover that this Rashad Khalifa never even found five prayers – not to mention his method states that wudu/ablution was CHANGED and thus RE-STATED in the Quran while salaat was NOT CHANGED although he introduced a whole new way of performing it!

I’m telling you, Rashad Khalifa’s system is full of cliches.

I am a Quranist (not a Submitter) and I KNOW the Quran tells me to honor, respect and follow Prophet Muhammed. HOWEVER, I do not believe the disgusting, pornographic, sexist and racist hadith are the sayings of my prophet, and my way of respecting him is to deny hadith.

Peace n’ love. 🙂

Response:
I think Rashad Khalifa is a stick used by the Mullah brigade to beat anybody that challenges the tall claims of the Hadith peddlers. Well over 90% of the so called Quranist have nothing to do with Rashad Khalifa but I guess you knew that :). In all probability your position resemble that of a sect member who must tow the party line.Most of us are not against any instructions left for us by Prophet Mohammad Pbuh. Since the Prophet followed the Quran to the letter that is why we will not settle for anything less than those Hadith that fulfill the Quranic standard of claims, that would be four upright witnesses from their respective communities at each rung of the Isnad chain. Blind belief in “scholars force you to break the exclusivity of belief reserved for God alone.

No, your are dead wrong when you say “That means follow Hadith” that means to follow what the Prophet Pbuh was following, the Quran.

After researching the issue thoroughly, I and many other researchers have come to the conclusion that all the authentic Hadith will fit on a two pager. Luckily for us, once we see past the sect centric marketing slogans, the Quran has been perfectly preserved for us by God Himself and by using our God given faculties of reason and logic plus a passion for research, we can find all the answers in it.

You are welcome to read my short post on thehttp://lifecheat.blogspot.com/2011/05/ro…

If you really believe the dissenting voices started in the 80s then you must be blind to Islamic history as well.

Response:
I think the point is that the question is based on a misunderstanding; primarily that Quranists follow Rashad Khalifa’s teachings, which is completely incorrect. It is the “Submitters” who follow the teachings of RK including rejecting 2 verses of the Quran, acknowledging his claim to be a Messenger of God, the “miracle code of 19” he presented and his “authorised” translation of the Quran which is inconsistent within itself (my opinion based on evidence) Besides this, the general attitude from the teachings is “exclusive” ; meaning anyone else following a different approach to islam is considered a Kafir or a Polytheist.”Quranists” on the other hand simply believe that the Quran is the sole source of divine authority and do not accept 2nd or 3rd sources as divine, and are “inclusive” : they do not accuse people on a different path to God to be Kafirs or Polytheists, recognising that there is diversity in the deen and multiple paths to salvation. Major difference.

No offence intended to anyone who calls himself a submitter who is actually a quranist. Using the correct standard terminology goes a long way to reducing misconceptions and misunderstandings.

IF you consider the Quran to be the Word of Allah, and that very Book claims to be the Truth, then it would be illogical to say that the ones who follow it are misguided.

Source(s):

Response:
I am a Quranist and this questioner is wrong. Rashadites/Submitters/19ers are NOT quranists for the following reasons:1. Rashadites/Submitters/19ers believe in another divinely inspired source – Rashad Khalifa’s footnotes and appendices. Try contradicting RK’s opinion and you will be rejected from the Rashadites/Submitters/19ers circles. Quranists on the other hand have NO OTHER divinely inspired source but the Quran. We do not consider any other source divine.

2. Rashadites/Submitters/19ers believe in the 19 code. They consider anyone who does not as a sectarian or worse, polytheist. Quranists on other hand may believe in a code, but not necessarily (as it happens, most of us including me do not). It’s not essential to being Quranist.

3. Rashadites/Submitters/19ers reject two verses. Quranists accept the Quran in full.

4. Rashadites/Submitters/19ers need to have a single uniform view (as cults are wont to do). Quranists believe in ‘Unity not Uniformity’. We are an association of individuals and groups who promote individual thinking. We are not threatened by it.

http://www.quranists.net

Response:
Your question is biased so even if you get the correct answer you will say “LOL” dude you are misguided or kaafir or bla bla bla. You are inclined to see a side and you wont be seeing the other sides. Now i ask you a question, what hadith do you believe in? hell lot of categories. Imam albani took 18 hadith from bukhari as daeef. for him bukhari’s 18 were not sahih which were sahih for other ppl and so on and so on. Now you will say albani is right if you are a wahabi and u will say he was wrong if you are not a wahabi. You people keep your logic aside and then start asking questions and expect the answers what you WANT to hear. If you were open for a debate or understanding your question would have been different and tolerant. The guy who said Quranist pray 5 times is wrong. There is no rule on being a Quranist or a “way” to follow it. We read Quran and try to understand it. WITHOUT the need of hadith which says there will be majority of women in hell or prophet were taken for a ride by his wives or the urine of a female child is impure and male child is pure or which says monkey were found stoning a female monkey coz they committed adultery. Only if you could understand the logic.

Source(s):

Quranist.

Nice people with good intentions


A recent comment I saw about Quranists

I have had a few good conversations with Quranists, they are nice people with good intentions, just lack the proper foundation and understanding. I guess who needs the words of The Prophet (saw) when your good at math and can just make up ideas based on equations.

Again, sadly, the misconception is that Quranists are numerologists / Submitters / Rashadites / Khalifites / 19ers etc

see related post: Quranists are not Rashadites

More info about Quranists